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The Texas musician talks Burning Daylight and producing for legends that ought to be.
Jerry David DeCicca always pops up in the right, weird places. I was writing about one of my favorite bands the other day, State Champion, and noticed that the 44-year-old musician had written their bio. Last year, I saw that Will Beeley’s incredible, long-lost Passing Dream LP, from 1979, was reissued — alongside a note that DeCicca had just produced the country singer-turned-trucker’s first album since. Now who the hell?
Based a little ways outside of Austin, TX, he made his name in the 2000s as the frontman of Columbus, OH’s folk-rock band The Black Swans. This year, he’s releasing his second and third solo albums: the sublime Time The Teacher, and next week Burning Daylight. The first record has been in constant rotation for me this year — it’s patient and silly with songs that are clearly secular, about watermelon and woodpeckers, but it achieves an almost-religious sensibility of wonder about the world.
Burning Daylight, up for pre-order now, is more peppy, more country, more ready for the bar. Recorded live to tape at Sonic Ranch studios in West Texas, it notably features drummer Gary Mallaber, a veteran of albums by Bruce Springsteen, Van Morrison, and the Steve Miller Band, all of whose work clearly inspired DeCicca here. It’s just a super-fun record from one of the more delightful, underrated figures on the DIY side of Americana.
Today, The FADER is premiering “Cutting Down the Country,” my favorite song from the record. “Every day coming home from work, I drive pass the old King Ranch / 140 acres man, that’s some big inheritance,” he begins, and you know it’s gonna be good. Fuck, it really is.
I always think of you not just as an artist but as a champion of other people’s music.
That’s nice, I appreciate that. I’m such a music fan, and I’m definitely not in the position that a lot of people are that could be championing other people’s music, you know? That always kind of bothered me. I produced this Ed Askew record a while ago, and it definitely opened up a lot of doors for Ed, because it was a good record. It wasn’t because my name was on it or anything. Ed’s been living in New York City since 1985, and nobody was helping him make a record. I love being able to try to help people — especially people that have been marginalized in some way — to kind of help get some attention back to them. I think now, kind of more than ever, that’s really important because there’s no trickle down from labels to have them foster those kind of records like they used to.
How did you get to produce the Will Beeley album that’s coming out?
I had this really weird experience, and I never said anything to anybody about this. My mom was visiting me here several years ago, and I went to an estate sale. It was later in the day, and I see these boxes of records. I’m like, “Oh, fuck,” like, this guy looks like he probably had good records. I found the Passing Dream record sitting there, and I looked at it, I’m like, “Man, I have never seen this record before.” I bought it, took it home, listened to it, and it was amazing. Six months later, I got a call from Josh at Tompkins Square saying, “Hey, you probably don’t know who this guy is, but I love what you did with Larry Jon Wilson. Would you do it with this other guy?” And he told me his name was Will Beeley.
I lived outside of San Antonio, so where I actually live, Will Beeley used to hang out in this area when he was a little kid. We got along great. He came down here and he was able to visit his mom and record a record. It’s different than Passing Dream because now he sounds like a truck driver. It’s pretty gnarly. His voice is just one of those things where, when people talk about Americana music and stuff like that, nobody’s got a voice like that anymore. Time has sucked the regionalism out of a lot of people’s voice. When they hear this record, they’re going to be like, “That’s what people want from that style of music.”
Eve Searls
Does working with people like that impact your own music differently than working with younger artists, people who are closer to the music business?
As a producer, I would tell these guys, like, “Less is more, we just need this.” I found that a lot of my ideas that I wanted to kind of enforce on other people’s records, I was not doing myself. It’s a good kind of learning tool in that regard.
I have tried to produce records by a couple younger artists and they’ve kind of backfired, because the younger artist, immediately they want to talk about who is going to put it out, and who is going to review it, and who do you know? The older musicians that I work with, they care about those things, but they really care about making a great record. They believe in the history of records and the permanence of records, that this is a forever document, and they’re aware that the records that they admire are great, whether they’re R&B records, or country records, or rock, whatever. That’s what they’re up against, so they don’t give a shit about blogs, or stuff like that.
They’re just like, “Is this going to be good?” and that’s the focus of the conversation. When you have that type of energy in the room, it makes everybody else kind of respect each other more. It’s a total thrill, and I always feel lucky when I get to do it.
It must have been so cool working with Gary Mallaber on the new album.
When I needed a drummer, and Super Secret, the label putting out, gave me a little bit of a budget to play with, I just called him up, and we talked for like an hour, and he was like, “I’ll do it.” I’m like, “What? Just like that, you’re going to fly out to middle of nowhere, West Texas, and meet up with a bunch of people that you don’t know for five days?” He’s like, “Jerry, I’ve been doing this since I was 19 years old. I know how to figure out if a gig’s good or not.”
In the studio, I would run down the songs and he’d be like, “Do you want me to use a click crack?” I’d go, “Did you use a click crack for [Van Morrison’s] Moon Dance? He’s like, “What, are you fucking with me?!” I’m like no. “Then don’t use a click crack, you know? We’re not making that type of record. This is going to be just on the floor, we’re doing this.” It was really nice to have somebody of that level of record making to kind of glue everything together.
I remember reading that your day job is in social work. I don’t know if you like to keep that part of your life separate, but I’m curious to hear a little bit about it.
What I do specifically is vocational rehabilitation. I help in young adults with disabilities learn employment skills, and help them acquire employment and for them to be able to be independent. Most of the individuals I work with have non-visual disabilities. For me, it was kind of a job that I sort of stumbled into, about ten years ago. I just kind of connected with it, and it really took.
That type of work coincides with a lot of my humanitarian beliefs. That doesn’t mean that I necessarily write songs about my job, but I’m somebody that really is drawn to records, and books, and movies that are personal, but there is this kind of political meaning in the peripheral, or it’s about people that, maybe the world isn’t exactly how they want it to be. A lot of the songwriters I like, and have worked with in the past, have been marginalized by either commerce, or bad luck.
To me, it’s all one thing, the personalized and intersecting conflict with the real world. I really like working in social services. It’s one of those things that I always feel like, when people are like, “I hate my job, what should I do?” I’m like, “Well, a lot of social service jobs don’t pay great when you first start, but that world needs more intelligent, hardworking, empathetic people to be working at those jobs.” Especially with how negative so many things are in the world, it definitely feels like you’re out there, like, you’re voting everyday. You are doing something that, though you’re just a very, very tiny Bandaid, you’re trying to help improve the lives of other people.
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Greetings, Dead Freaks! In this episode I sit down and chat with songwriter, Jerry David DeCicca, about his new album, Burning Daylight(out on 9/28 and available on Bandcamp), and his other album from this year, Time The Teacher(also at Bandcamp). We then get into his history as a Dead fan and wrap the whole thing up with some good old Grateful Dead.
You can delve into the Jerry David DeCicca’s work on his website, jerrydaviddecicca.com where you’l find tour dates and links to purchase his records. Please head on over and check out what he has to offer.
Also in this episode, I put in a word for the Love Hope Strength Foundation. They’re doing great helping to expand the International Bone Marrow Registry. Their current fundraiser includes a giveaway for a trip to Las Vegas to meet and to see Ozzy Osbourne. For details on the contest, go to Omaze.com/ozzy and to learn more about how you can help the Love Hope Strength Foundation, check out lovehopestrength.org.
I completely failed to mention the merch in this episode so I’ll just add here, you can still grab t-shirts, mugs (travel & otherwise), and stickers over on the Redbubble site.
Let me remind you that the Brokedown Podcast is part of the Osiris Podcast Network. Osiris is creating a community that connects people like you with podcasts and live experiences about artists and topics you love. Sign up for the newsletter at OsirisPod.com to stay in the loop. Relix Magazine is a media partner of Osiris — for music news go to Relix.com.
Don’t forget to follow the @BrokedownPod twitter account for regular news, live tweetstorms of shows as I listen, and other minutiae. We also have an Instagram account with the same handle. If you like pictures of things, you can find that here: BrokedownPod Instagram. Also, if you use iTunes, please consider posting a review as it really help get the word out.
Jerry David DeCicca – Watermelon(excerpt, from his 2018 album, Time The Teacheravailable via Bandcamp)
Jerry David DeCicca – Dead Man’s Shoes(from his upcoming album, Burning, available 9/28/18 via Bandcamp)
Grateful Dead – 1978-05-07 Field House, Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY – Dire Wolf, Friend Of The Devil, Passenger, Brown Eyed Women, The Music Never Stopped, Scarlet Begonias > Fire On The Mountain
Henry Kaiser / Chris Cogburn / Ingebrigt Håker Flaten / Bob Hoffnar: En Las Montañas de Excesos
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Henry Kaiser lays out his artistic credo: “I’m a die-hard improviser and I’m a die-hard experimentalist. I always want to try things I haven’t done before and see what happens.”
The premise behind the veteran Bay Area guitar wizard’s next release pivots on collaborating with new musicians. That scenario came to fruition on a 2015 session that found him interfacing with a trio of A-list Austin improvisers: bassist Ingebrigt Håker Flaten, drummer Chris Cogburn, and pedal steel expert Bob Hoffnar.
“There was no plan,” admits Kaiser. “There was no discussion. We hadn’t met. We came to the studio, set up, and we played without talking much at all.”
The resulting En Las Montañas de Excesos (In the Mountains of Excess) cuts loose an expressionistic, free-form fusion alternating between aggressive musical pile-ons and anti-gravitational space sections. Cogburn’s malleable meters and Håker Flaten’s muscular electric bass serve as the quartet’s rhythmic tail fin. Meanwhile, Kaiser and Hoffnar beam prisms of squirrely melodies that challenge electric guitar and pedal steel conventions.
While it’s tempting to deem such unrestrained movements as free jazz or avant-garde, Kaiser characterizes it as something more familiar.
“It’s just rock & roll,” he chuckled over the weekend. “It’s improvised rock & roll and I grew up with a lot of that in the Bay Area where it went to a lot of crazier extremes than it did on the albums by San Francisco bands like the Grateful Dead, Moby Grape, and Quicksilver Messenger Service.
“You’ve got little fringe things with improvisation in what passes for rock & roll nowadays,” he continues, “but the way pop music has become so conservative and mainstream, most of what sells a lot isn’t Jimi Hendrix playing ‘Purple Haze.’ It’s indie rock that’s about as experimental as Perry Como.”
En Las Montañas de Excesosarrives April 6 on Austin’s Self Sabotage Records. The collection subdivides into two continuous vinyl sides as well as four longer digital tracks. Each is titled with the self-effacing corruption of an H.P. Lovecraft story. Lead cut, “The Shadow Over Overkill,” streams here for the first time:
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INGEBRIGT HÅKER FLATEN
«I like to create surprising sounds of music with my groups and try to avoid the obvious path without it becoming forced»
…………
«Mi piace dare vita ad un sound inaspettato con i miei gruppi e tento di evitare i sentieri più ovvi, senza che diventino costrittivi»
This is a really hard task to encompass a musician like Ingebrigt Håker Flaten in a specific genre as well as to associate him to a single group or music trend.
This Norwegian electric and upright bassist, born in 1971, is endeed one of the most surprising and avant-garde artist out there; he’s very involved in many innovative projects, from the most fruitful experimentation to a constant interplay which allows musicians to listen to each other in order to find a strong cohesion.
The list of his collaborations is really impressive: they range from The Young Mothers to the incredible trio The Thing (with Mats Gustafsson and Paal Nilssen-Love); from the suggestive and overwhelming quintet Atomic to the Scorch Trio, together with Raoul Bjorkenheim and Frank Rosaly.
Compito proibitivo, quello di ascrivere un musicista come Ingebrigt Håker Flaten a un genere musicale in particolare e inquadrarlo solo in un gruppo o in una corrente stilistica.
Il contrabbassista e bassista elettrico norvegese, classe 1971, infatti è uno dei più stupefacenti e avanguardistici agitatori musicali in circolazione, impegnatissimo in progetti contrassegnati dal senso di ricerca, dalla sperimentazione più proficua e da un costante interplay che permette ai musicisti di ascoltarsi l’un l’altro per trovare una forte coesione.
La lista dei progetti in cui è coinvolto Ingebrigt è impressionante: dai The Young Mothers all’incredibile The Thing (con Mats Gustafsson e Paal Nilssen-Love), dal suggestivo e travolgente quintetto Atomic allo Scorch Trio, in compagnia di Raoul Bjorkenheim e Frank Rosaly.
The Young Mothers
The Thing
ATOMIC JAZZ BAND
SCORCH TRIO
Frank Rosaly
Raoul Bjorkenheim
Ingebrigt Håker Flaten is an expressive upright bassist: he’s really powerful as well as sensitive; as an electric bassist he has the rare capacity to harmonize a jazz attitude with a rock espression, almost in the style of Frank Zappa. Ingebrigt, after all, has a comprhenesive approach to music, so much that many people remember his militancy in the Bugge Wesseltoft New Conception Of Jazz, in addition to his notable experience with Close Erase (along with Christian Wallumrød on piano and Per Oddvar Johansen on drums).
In this interview, Ingebrigt analyses the difference between Norwegian scene – his native land – and the United States where he’s been resident for a long time. He also mentions the great figure of Bjørnar Andresen, the amazing norwegian bassist who passed away early in 2004 and moreover he tells us about his continuous and unstoppable hunger for notes, encounters and music which paves the way as well as possible towards the future, whilst not forgetting the roots.
Ingebrigt Håker Flaten è un contrabbassista espressivo, dotato di rara potenza ma anche di grande sensibilità; come bassista elettrico ha la capacità non comune di armonizzare un approccio mentale jazzistico con un piglio rock quasi zappiano. Del resto, Ingebrigt ha davvero attraversato la musica a 360 gradi, tanto che molti ne ricordano anche la scintillante permanenza nel Bugge Wesseltoft New Conception Of Jazz e la notevolissima esperienza nei Close Erase (con Christian Wallumrød al piano e Per Oddvar Johansen alla batteria).
Nell’intervista che ci ha concesso, Ingebrigt analizza le differenze di scena tra la Norvegia, sua terra natia, e gli USA, dove risiede già da diversi anni, ricorda la grande figura di Bjørnar Andresen, splendido bassista norvegese scomparso prematuramente nel 2004 e ci racconta della sua continua e irrefrenabile fame di note, di incontri e di musica che tracci al meglio la strada verso il futuro, senza per questo dimenticare le radici.
AS A LEADER
A JAZZ ATTITUDE WITH A ROCK PERSONALITY
INTERVIEW WITH
INGEBRIGT HÅKER FLATEN
BMF: Let’s start from your beginnings. Would you like to tell us how did you start to approach bass? Why did you choose it?
Ingebrigt Håker Flaten: I originally started to play classical piano, then guitar, but nothing stuck with me. My twin brother took the carrier as a piano player but when I was ten they needed a bass player for the gospel choir in my village and I started taking a few lessons and then was assigned for the rhythm section together with my twin brother on piano and my best friend on drums. We later started a fusion trio called NEON, but that’s an entirely different story.. ha!
UN APPROCCIO JAZZ CON IL PIGLIO DEL ROCKER
INTERVISTA A
INGEBRIGT HÅKER FLATEN
BMF: Partiamo dai tuoi inizi. Ci vuoi raccontare il tuo primo approccio al basso ed il perché della scelta di questo strumento?
Ingebrigt Håker Flaten: In principio iniziai a suonare il pianoforte classico, poi fu la volta della chitarra, ma nulla di concreto. Il mio fratello gemello intraprese la carriera di pianista mentre al mio paese serviva un bassista per il coro gospel così a dieci anni iniziai a prendere alcune lezioni ed in seguito fui assegnato alla sezione ritmica, insieme a mio fratello al piano ed il mio migliore amico alla batteria. Più tardi formammo un trio fusion chiamato NEON, ma si tratta di tutta un’altra storia… ha!
BMF: What kind of music were you used to listen to during your formative years? Who were the musicians by whom you get inspired? And what about your main influences especially as regards both electric and double bass?
IHF: Well, I’m from a very musical family (we’re six siblings) and all of them play music, my (late) father was an organ player in church and my mother sang. So there’s always been music around us, but of course mostly church related. After I started playing electric bass in the choir I got really fascinated by a lot of the funk/fusion music like Koinonia, Mezzoforte and so on, but once I heard AC/DC from my neighbour I realised there was another kind of music out there as well, and I started to search for that! I think my earliest inspirations – which were directly connected to the acoustic and electric bass before I had really started studying – was Swedish Palle Danielsson who played with the Scandinavian edition of the Keith Jarrett Quartet with Jan Garbarek and Jon Christensen, then also of course Jaco Pastorius! But one of my first live concert-kick’s was with Terje Rypdal’s The Chasers band together with Audun Kleive on drums and Bjørn Kjellemyr on bass. Bjørn was definitely one of my earliest inspirations as well! Then I started to study with Odd Magne Gridseth in Trondheim, leading up to my years studying at the Conservatory in Trondheim, and he got me onto bass players like Niels Henning Ørsted-Pedersen, Sam Jones etc; he was an amazing player and an important (and only) bass teacher I really ever had!
BMF: Che tipo di musica eri solito ascoltare durante i tuoi anni formativi? Quali sono state le tue ispirazioni e le tue influenze principali per quanto riguarda il basso elettrico e il contrabbasso?
IHF: Dunque, io provengo da una famiglia di musicisti (siamo in sei, tra fratelli e sorelle) e ognuno di noi suona. Il mio rimpianto padre era un organista della chiesa e mia madre cantava. Perciò siamo siempre stati circondati dalla musica, ma ovviamente si trattava per lo più di un repertorio sacro. Dopo aver iniziato a suonare il basso elettrico nel coro rimasi affascinato da tutta quella musica funky e fusion come i Koinonia, i Mezzoforte e così via. Ma una volta ascoltati gli AC/DC dai miei vicini realizzai che esisteva tutto un altro universo, così andai alla ricerca di quello! Credo che tra le mie prime ispirazioni direttamente connesse al contrabbasso e al basso elettrico- prima che io iniziassi a suonare – ci siano stati lo svedese Palle Danielsson che suonava con la versione scandinava del Keith Jarrett Quartet con Jan Garbarek e Jon Christensen, poi certo anche Jaco Pastorius! Ma una delle mie prime esperienze ad un concerto live fu quello del Terje Rypdal & The Chasers insieme a Audun Kleive alla batteria e Bjørn Kjellemyr al basso. Anche Bjørn è stato in assoluto una delle mie prime ispirazioni. In seguito iniziai a studiare con Odd Magne Gridseth a Trondheim, negli anni che precedevano la frequenza del Conservatorio nella stessa città, e lui mi avvicinò a bassisti del calibro di Niels Henning Ørsted-Pedersen, Sam Jones etc; era un musicista straordinario ed il più importante ed unico insegnante che abbia mai avuto!
Bjørn Kjellemyr
Odd Magne Gridseth
Niels Pedersen & Sam Jones – Double Bass (1976)
Jimmy Garrison
Charlie Haden
Scott LaFaro
Charles Mingus
Paul Chambers
Ron Carter
Gary Peacock
Henry Grimes
Steve Swallow
When I started studying jazz in 1992 and – I was exposed to the whole history of jazz – I got heavy into players like Jimmy Garrison, Charlie Haden, Scott LaFaro, Charles Mingus, Paul Chambers, Ron Carter, Gary Peacock, Henry Grimes, Steve Swallow etc etc, since then I left the electric bass more and more in favour of the acoustic until I picked it up again in the early 2000. Also, after ending my studies in 1995, I moved to Oslo and shortly after I met Bjørnar Andresen who was part of the sixties scene in Norway and also played and was very much involved with the people in the scene around Garbarek, Christensen etc. Bjørnar was an important figure in developing the Norwegian sound but he pushed it much more to the Surreal and Avant Garde. Bjørnar was also very close to George Russel and he was part of Svein Finnerud Trio which was heavily inspired by the Paul Bley Trio, became an iconic band in Norway back in the 70’s / 80’s. He made a big impact on me both as an original bass player (electric and acoustic) and a charismatic person; we became really close friends and even if I didn’t have a single bass lesson I’d say is one of my most important inspirations.
Quando iniziai a studiare jazz nel 1992 – mentre entravo in contatto con l’intera storia del genere – ci ho dato dentro con musicisti come Jimmy Garrison, Charlie Haden, Scott LaFaro, Charles Mingus, Paul Chambers, Ron Carter, Gary Peacock, Henry Grimes, Steve Swallow etc. Da allora misi da parte il basso elettrico sempre più a vantaggio del contrabbasso fino a quando non lo ripresi agli inizi del 2000. In più dopo aver completato i miei studi nel 1995, mi trasferii a Oslo e poco più tardi incontrai Bjørnar Andresen che faceva parte integrante della scena norvegese degli anni ’60. Inoltre suonava ed interagiva molto con gli artisti del giro di Garbarek, Christensen etc. Bjørnar è stato una figura fondamentale nello sviluppo del sound norvegese, spingendolo però di più verso la musica del surrealismo e l’Avanguardia. Egli era pure molto vicino a George Russel oltre a far parte dello Svein Finnerud Trio profondamente ispirato dal Paul Bley Trio, diventando una band icona in Norvegia a cavallo tra gli anni ’70 e ’80. Ebbe un impatto rilevante sia in qualità di bassista originale (elettrico e contrabbasso) sia come persona carismatica; diventammo molto amici e anche se non presi mai neppure una sola lezione con lui, posso dire che rappresenti una delle mie più importanti ispirazioni.
Bjørnar Andresen
Svein Finnerud Trio
BMF: With you I can’t help but talk about the rich norwegian jazz scene that has grown considerably in the last 20 years. The whole world of jazz often asked itself about the reasons of this huge creativity and organisational capacity; italian journalist Luca Vitali wrote in this respect a really interesting and expository book. As an insider, how do you explain this “Made In Norway” excellence? And also, do you think there’s a specific “nordic sound”?
IHF: Yes, there’s definitely a specific Nordic Sound and the ECM label was helping establishing that in their early years when they started out with Jan Garbarek, Terje Rypdal, Arild Andersen and Jon Christensen. The way they mixed their music with norwegian folk, and jazz heavily inspired by jazz great musicians like Don Cherry, George Russel, John Coltrane, Albert Ayler, Sonny Rollins etc etc made a huge impact on the scene in Norway for decades and ECM later made a trademark out of releasing albums that maintained that ‘vibe’ and often had a LOT of reverb.… I think in many ways that Jan Garbarek, Jon Christensen and Arild Andersen were some of the most important reasons in shaping such a strong jazz scene in Norway, but there are obviously reasons, and one of them is definitely the Jazz Conservatory in Trondheim that started in 1979 (established by Terje Bjørklund, Jon Pål Inderberg and Erling Aksdal), it was based on a ‘different’ pedagogic approach than most jazz-schools today where they were and still are focusing more on auditive (listening) training than visual (reading) music education. You would be surprised how many of the Norwegian jazz-musicians now well known around the world been studying there. I think that the school in Trondheim had and still has a big impact on the reasons why there are so many jazz musicians with an original and individual approach from Norway. You could also probably say the fact that Norway is completely off the map geographically, which has contributed to also shape musicians who could able to do things their own way out of necessity..
BMF: Con te è impossibile non parlare della fertilissima scena del jazz norvegese, che ha avuto un picco incredibile negli ultimi venti anni. L’intero mondo del jazz si è più volte chiesto le ragioni di questa enorme creatività e capacità organizzativa; il giornalista italiano Luca Vitali ha scritto al riguardo un libro molto interessante ed esplicativo. Dall’interno, come spieghi quest’eccellenza norvegese? E poi ti chiedo: ritieni che esista uno specifico “nordic sound”?
IHF: Sì, esiste assolutamente uno specifico sound nordico e l’etichetta ECM ha contribuito a consolidarne la presenza quando partirono con Jan Garbarek, Terje Rypdal, Arild Andersen e Jon Christensen. Il modo in cui fondevano la loro musica con il folk norvegese ed il jazz fortemente ispirato da grandi musicisti come Don Cherry, George Russell, John Coltrane, Albert Ayler, Sonny Rollins etc., che ebbero un grande impatto sulla scena norvegese per decenni. Così la ECM creò il suo marchio di fabbrica incidendo album che mantenessero quello stile e spesso ebbe molto riverbero. Ritengo che sotto molti aspetti Jan Garbarek, Jon Christensen e Arild Andersen abbiano giocato un ruolo decisivo nella definizione di un panorama jazz tanto potente in Norvegia. Ma ci sono delle ragioni evidenti, tra queste, c’è in assoluto il Jazz Conservatory di Trondheim che aprì nel 1979 (fondato da Terje Bjørklund, Jon Pål Inderberg e Erling Aksdal) che si basava su un differente approccio didattico rispetto alle altre scuole, focalizzandosi più su una formazione all’ascolto che non alla lettura della musica. Rimarreste sorpresi nel constatare quanti dei musicisti jazz norvegesi, ora molto noti nei circuiti internazionali, abbiano studiato lì. Credo che l’istituto di Trondheim abbia avuto – e tuttora continui ad avere – un’incidenza considerevole sul perché ci siano in giro così tanti musicisti provenienti dalla Norvegia dotati di un approccio originale e peculiare. Certo si potrebbe anche rispondere che la Norvegia sia una terra completamente isolata, geograficamente parlando, il che può aver contribuito anche a formare dei musicisti che fossero in grado di fare le cose a proprio modo, per necessità…
Jan Garbarek, Arild Andersen, Jon Christensen
BMF: I’d like to know your opinion about another unquestionable norwegian excellence, which is in general typical of North European countries, that is to say the merit of having generated an extraordinary and kaleidoscopic double bass current, the list would be so long… Here again, what are the reasons of this energy, in your view?
IHF: That’s a hard question really, but Niels Henning Ørsted-Pedersen, Palle Danielsson, Arild Andersen and Anders Jormin to name some, have surely had an huge impact in putting scandinavian bass players on the map as world-renowned musicians and created a tradition and a scene of strong bass players who since then seemed to have grown. It’s truly very inspiring to know and hear all the amazing bass players around today, the level of musicianship is enormously high!
BMF: Voglio chiederti ora, nello specifico, la tua opinione circa un’altra indubbia eccellenza norvegese e dei paesi del Nord Europa in genere: quella di aver prodotto una scuola contrabbassistica eccezionale e caleidoscopica, l’elenco sarebbe lunghissimo. Anche qui, quali le ragioni di questa forza?
IHF: È davvero una domanda difficile, ad ogni modo Niels Henning Ørsted-Pedersen, Palle Danielsson, Arild Andersen e Anders Jormin (per citarne solo alcuni) hanno sicuramente avuto un grande ruolo nel portare alla ribalta i bassisti scandinavi, rendendoli dei musicisti di fama mondiale, ed hanno creato una tradizione ed una scena di bassisti validi che nel frattempo sono maturati. È davvero molto stimolante conoscere ed ascoltare tutti questi artisti oggi, il livello di sensibilità per la musica è molto alto!
Niels Henning Ørsted-Pedersen
Palle Danielsson
Arild Andersen
Anders Jormin
BMF: Speaking of Norway, may I ask you to talk about a personal memory about Bjørnar Andresen?
IHF: Yes, my first memory that comes up is after I met him for the first time back in Oslo in 1996; I was playing a gig with piano player Vigleik Storås and drummer Espen Rud (the original drummer in Svein Finnerud Trio) when Bjørnar showed up. I didn’t know him then and was kinda terrified by his presence (he was a big guy and took a lot of space both physically and mentally). We played some standards in the piano trio tradition, and I think he liked my bass playing and he invited me to come to his home the next day telling me he wanted to ‘talk’ to me. I showed up not knowing what to expect and I was very nervous.. his kids were there and he’ve also invited a drummer friend who was prepared with a pair of brushes on some newspapers on his living room table. Bjørnar told me he was there to keep the beat while I was supposed to play this song «vem kan segla forutan vind» .. it’s a very well known and beautiful swedish kids song and Bjørnar loved it a lot! So there I was playing bass in front of Bjørnar and his kids and this drummer, none of them I’ve ever seen before, I tried to play the melody while Kjell (the drummer) kept the beat and Bjørnar was singing and crying because he loved the song so much. He was a very sensitive and emotional man! It was surreal and bizarre experience but it thought me a lesson of listening and focusing on the beat for sure! Haha!!! Another thing he later told me (that he got from George Russell) was: «Follow your core, it won’t lead you wrong!». I’ve tried the best I can to follow that advice!I loved Bjørnar a lot, I miss him dearly.
BMF: Restando in Norvegia, posso chiederti un ricordo personale che hai di Bjørnar Andresen?
IHF: Sì, il primo ricordo che mi viene in mente risale al mio primo incontro con lui una volta ritornato a Oslo nel 1996; stavo suonando ad un concerto con il pianista Vigleik Storås ed il batterista Espen Rud (il batterista originario dello Svein Finnerud Trio) quando Bjørnar si presentò. Non lo conoscevo a quel tempo ed ero un po’ terrorizzato dalla sua presenza (era un omone e prendeva un sacco di spazio sia fisicamente che mentalmente). Ci mettemmo a suonare alcuni standards nella tradizione del piano trio e credo che gli sia piaciuto il mio stile, e mi invitò a casa sua il giorno successivo dicendomi che voleva parlarmi. Mi sono presentato senza sapere cosa aspettarmi dunque ero molto nervoso. I suoi figli erano lì e lui invitò pure un suo amico batterista che era pronto con un paio di spazzole su alcuni giornali disposti sul tavolo del soggiorno. Bjørnar mi disse che era lì per tenere il ritmo mentre io avrei dovuto suonare questa canzone “Vem Kan Segla Förutan Vind” che è un pezzo molto conosciuto del repertorio per bambini e Bjørnar lo amava molto! Così ero lì a suonare il basso di fronte a Bjørnar, ai suoi figli e a quel batterista, senza aver mai visto prima nessuno di loro; tentavo di interpretare la melodia mentre Kjell (il batterista) manteneva il ritmo e Bjørnar cantava e piangeva, perché adorava letteralmente quella canzone. Era un uomo davvero sensibile ed emotivo! Fu un’esperienza surreale e singolare eppure mi impartì di certo un insegnamento su come ascoltare e focalizzarmi sul ritmo. Un’altra cosa che mi disse in seguito (che lui stesso apprese da George Russell) fu: «Segui la tua anima, non ti farà mai sbagliare!» Ho cercato di fare del mio meglio per seguire quel consiglio! Ho amato molto Bjørnar, e mi manca profondamente.
Vigleik Storås
Espen Rud
George Russell
BMF: The list of your recordings is really impressive, most of all because the great number of projects and collaborations tallies with the objectively high quality of your works, which is not so easy. Close Erase, Bugge Wesseltoft’s NCOJ, The Thing, Scorch Trio, Element, Free Fall, The Young Mothers… and many others. It seems that your curiosity and urge to communicate, lead you to continuously prove yourself. And in addition, those contexts are also different from each other, which is as it should be. How would you describe this “hunger” for music and experiences?
IHF: I think I get easily bored and I find it an urge to push myself into new situations where I play with new people and search new musical environments etc. I’m quite eclectic when it comes to taste and often I feel I’m kinda an outsider in many of my groups because I feel that all the other musicians I’m playing with always seem to be so much more focused in one specific genre. tho; this was before I met my brothers in The Young Mothers, haha. I like to create surprising sounds of music with my groups and try to avoid the obvious path without it becoming forced. I also think all the groups you mentioned (and also Atomic – one of my main bands still) who are very specific in each of their genres and I feel very fortunate to have been working with musicians with such an extreme high level of work – and music-aesthetics and whom all of them have the urge to always push the music forward, which is pushing me to constantly renew and challenge myself. In order to survive the life as a touring musician it feels like a necessity to always play in bands where the music feels fresh!
BMF: La lista delle tue incisioni è realmente impressionante, soprattutto perché la quantità di progetti e collaborazioni collima con una qualità oggettivamente altissima, e non è semplice. Close Erase, Bugge Wesseltoft’s NCOJ, The Thing, Scorch Trio, Element, Free Fall, The Young Mothers… e moltissimi altri. Si direbbe che la tua curiosità e la tua voglia di esprimerti ti spingano a metterti in gioco di continuo. In aggiunta, i contesti sono anche diversi tra loro, come è giusto che sia. Questa “fame” continua di musica ed esperienze come la descriveresti?
IHF: Credo di annoiarmi facilemente così ho come l’urgenza di buttarmi in nuove situazioni in cui suonare con persone nuove ed esplorare nuovi contesti musicali etc. Sono abbastanza eclettico in tema di gusti e spesso mi sento un po’ un outsider in molti dei miei gruppi perché avverto che gli altri musicisti con cui interagisco tendano a focalizzarsi di più su di un genere specifico; questo succedeva prima che incontrassi i miei fratelli nei The Young Mothers. Mi piace dare vita ad un tipo di sound inatteso con il mio gruppo e tento di evitare i sentieri più ovvi, senza che diventino costrittivi. Penso inoltre che tutti i gruppi da te menzionati (compresi gli Atomic, ancora una della mie band principali) sono molto specifici in ciascuno dei loro generi ed io mi sento molto fortunato di aver lavorato con musicisti dotati di un così alto livello di estetica musicale e che hanno tutti l’urgenza di spingere oltre la musica, il che mi incita a rinnovarmi costantemente e a mettermi alla prova. Al fine di sopravvivere come turnista, sembra proprio una necessità suonare continuamente nelle band dove la musica risulti fresca!
Close Erase
Bugge Wesseltoft’s NCOJ
The Thing with Ken Vandermark (far right) at Kongsberg Jazzfestival (2008)
The Norwegian jazz band Element in concert in Norway. From left Ingebrigt Håker Flaten, Paal Nilssen-Love and Gisle Johansen
Scorch Trio
Free Fall
The Young Mothers
Atomic
BMF: You have been living in US for such a long time, which have broadened your opportunities to discover new projects and experiment new challenges. Is there, in this regard, a great difference (as many people still think) between the generally intended european and US scenes?
IHF: There’s absolutely a HUGE difference and the simple explanation is that the reality of life is very different in the US vs EU, and that obviously shapes how musicians work. Even if things are changing dramatically everywhere around the globe as we speak; in most of EU and specially in Scandinavia you can still easily get help from the governments in forms of grants and a well working welfare society to help living a life as a creative musician/artist operating playing/doing quite marginal music/art. While in the US -where grants and a working welfare system are mostly none existing- you either have to find a day-job, teach, or tap into the more commercial music biz to survive. These are all crucial factors to the flexibility of an artist and they shape how you work. Because of this it might exist a more urgency in the US if you’ve chosen to play jazz or improvised music. All the musicians I know and work with are extremely hard working and very strong in their field and I find it very inspiring to work with them. Life is in general “easier” in Europe and musicians/artists are able to create more freely without the constant reminders of the harsh realities of life. tho; this is of course not the situation everywhere, and the backside of a well working welfare system might be that some take the support for granted, which again can create some kinda dependency of the “system” and lack of urgency.
BMF: Da diversi anni vivi negli USA. Questo ha allargato le tue possibilità di scoprire progetti e di vivere nuovi stimoli? E ti chiedo, c’è a tuo parere una grande differenza (come pensano ancora in molti) tra la scena genericamente europea e quella statunitense?
IHF: C’è in assoluto una differenza enorme, e la spiegazione evidente risiede nel fatto che le condizioni di vita sono molto diverse tra gli Stati Uniti e l’Europa, il che definisce chiaramente come lavorano i musicisti. Anche se le cose stanno cambiando drammaticamente dappertutto nel mondo mentre parliamo, nella maggior parte d’Europa e specialmente in Scandinavia è possibile ancora ricevere degli aiuti dal governo sotto forma di sovvenzioni e grazie ad un welfare che lavora bene nel supportare chi sceglie di vivere come musicista/operatore del settore artistico, artefice di musica/arte marginale. Al contrario negli Stati Uniti – dove garanzie ed un sistema di welfare sociale funzionante sono per la maggior parte inesistenti – tu devi pergiunta trovarti un altro lavoro, insegnare, o inserirti nel business della musica più commerciale per sopravvivere. Si tratta di fattori cruciali per la flessibilità di un artista e definiscono il modo in cui lavori. Per questo motivo dovrebbe esistere un piano di assistenza negli States nel momento in cui scegli di suonare jazz o improvvisazione. Tutti i musicisti che conosco e con cui collaboro lavorano duramente e sono molto solidi nel loro campo e trovo sempre stimolante collaborare con loro. La vita è in genere “meno complicata” in Europa e i musicisti/artisti sono in grado di creare più liberamente senza il costante richiamo alla dura realtà della vita. Ovviamente non è così dappertutto ed il rovescio di un sistema giusto di welfare potrebbe essere quello di dare per scontato il sostegno, il che potrebbe creare di nuovo un certo cortocircuito e favorire una mancanza di urgenza.
There are always two sides to a coin but I strongly believe that any civilised society should support arts and music, like medical assistance and should never be looked at as an expense but as a privilege everybody should have access to, like health care. It’s really chocking to see the ignorance when it comes to this all around the world these days! Anyway, when it comes down to being on the band-stand and playing music together; who give the shit! I think it’s important to understand the big differences in realities of life around -and you gotta live somewhere for a while to understand that- but people need to stop thinking like “us” and “them”. It’s important to understand that we’re all into it for the same reasons and that it’s all about the love of art/music and the need to be an artist/musician. Everybody has their own path and challenges wherever you live in the world and it feels more important than ever to stand together! So to answer your question: the world is changing and the usual idea about how different the american jazz musicians and the european jazz musicians are is about to change and equal out, I think.
Ci sono sempre i due lati della medaglia ma credo fortemente che ogni società civile debba supportare le arti e la musica, alla stregua dell’assistenza sanitaria, perciò non dovrebbe essere considerata come un costo ma come un diritto a cui tutti dovrebbero avere accesso, proprio come le cure mediche. È davvero angosciante constatare l’ignoranza quando si arriva a questo in tutto il mondo, ai giorni nostri. Ad ogni modo si tratta di salire sul palco e suonare insieme; chi se ne frega! Credo che l’importante sia capire le sostanziali differenze di vita che ci sono in giro – e ci devi convivere per un po’ per comprenderle – ma le persone dovrebbero smetterla di pensare contrapponendo il “noi” con il “loro”. È fondamentale rendersi conto che siamo tutti lì per le medesime ragioni, vale a dire per l’amore verso l’arte e la musica ed il bisogno di essere un artista e un musicista. Ognuno ha il suo cammino personale e si mette alla prova ovunque si trovi a vivere e risulta più importante che mai restare uniti! Dunque per rispondere alla tua domanda: il mondo sta cambiando e l’idea abituale riguardo a quanto differenti siano i musicisti jazz statunitensi rispetto a quelli europei sta per cambiare e ad annullarsi, credo.
BMF: Besides your artistic union with Paal Nilssen-Love, who would you consider as trail mates and brothers in the course of your career and personal path?
IHF: I would say that aside of my “trail-mates” in Atomic and The Thing whom I’m spending most of my time on the road with, my brothers in The Young Mothers are some of my closest friends! We’re on the same wavelength and we are trying to break new ground together, it’s beautiful, these human beings mean a lot to me on so many levels!
BMF: It’s not so common for your collegues to prove to be so comfortable with both electric and upright bass, as you do. Sometimes it may be difficult to combine so different approachs. But whilst listening to your music, it’s evident that both attitudes enrich one another, through a sort of reciprocal improvement…
IHF: Yeah, I do love the different approaches of the electric and the acoustic bass. I’ve learned to really appreciate how different they operate and I feel they fulfil and inspire each other for sure!
BMF: Are you passionate about literature or movie? Do you believe in the exchange between different arts?
IHF: YES I DO! I love literature and always wish I could read more, I deeply and honestly respect the art of writing, and think it’s one of the most important art forms! And movies are my passion, I see a lot of movies all the time and find a lot of inspiration in the visual and emotional impact of moving images with sound. I always wished to create movie scores with my music and I always think images when hearing music.
BMF: What’s your opinion about the evolution of the electric bass and double bass? Is there still any chance to innovate their respective languages?
IHF: Of course, there’s always new things to do, it might be on a micro level, but definitely there are still possibilities untouched. You gotta really get to the bottom of the instrument and that might take you a lifetime (or two- haha), but there are still things to do!
BMF: Oltre al tuo sodalizio fraterno con Paal Nilssen-Love, chi potresti come compagni di strada e fratelli del tuo percorso musicale e umano?
IHF: Direi che a parte i miei compagni negli Atomic e nei The Thing con cui sono in giro per la maggior parte del tempo, i miei fratelli dei The Young Mothers sono tra i miei amici più stretti! Siamo sulla stessa lunghezza d’onda e stiamo cercando di trovare nuove strade insieme, è meraviglioso; questi esseri umani significano molto per me sotto molti aspetti.
BMF: Non è così usuale dimostrare di essere a proprio agio sia con il basso elettrico sia con il contrabbasso, come fai tu. Alle volte può risultare difficile coniugare approcci così differenti. Ma nel momento in cui si presta ascolto alla tua musica, è chiaro che entrambi gli atteggiamenti si arrichiscano l’un l’altro, attraverso una sorta di perfezionamento reciproco…
IHF: Sì, amo entrambi i diversi approcci. Ho imparato ad apprezzare davvero il loro differente modo di funzionare e credo fermamente che si rispettino ed ispirino a vicenda.
BMF: Sei appassionato di cinema e di letteratura? Credi nello scambio tra diverse forme espressive?
IHF: Sì. Amo la letteratura e penso sempre che dovrei leggere di più; onestamente rispetto molto l’arte della scrittura e credo che sia una delle forme espressive più importanti! Anche il cinema è la mia passione, vedo un sacco di film tutto il tempo, e traggo molta ispirazione dall’impatto visivo ed emotivo prodotto dal connubio dei fotogrammi con la musica. Ho sempre desiderato comporre musica per film e penso sempre alle immagini quando la ascolto.
BMF: Cosa ne pensi dell’evoluzione del basso elettrico e del contrabbasso? Credi che ci sia ancora un margine di innovazione nei loro rispettivi linguaggi?
IHF: Certamente, ci sono sempre altre cose da fare, il che potrebbe valere ad un microlivello, ma in assoluto ci sono ancora potenzialità inesplorate. Devi venire a capo dello strumento, il che potrebbe prenderti una vita (o due), ma c’è ancora tanta strada!
BMF: Would you like to talk about your actual gear?
IHF: Well, I got my “Fender Precision-63 Pre CBS” stolen from me last year in Hong Kong and I’ve never missed any of my instruments more, it was a beautiful and amazingly dynamic instrument that I still haven’t found a replacement for. Now I’m playing an amazing “hybrid” of a bass that I actually got from Bjørnar Andresen back in the days; a Rickenbacker that he made into a fretless and put Fender pic-ups on, it’s a weird weird instrument that I appreciate more and more! For the acoustic bass I’m a lifelong warrior of the “gut strings sound” and I will always work towards the possibilities of getting that worked out even with my “removable neck” Christopher bass-travel model that I’m playing now. As regards amps: vintage ampeg or orange are the only two options if you’re going for a neutral sound: it works both for electric and acoustic and play super soft or loud as hell! But on acoustic I prefer if possible to play totally acoustic using the REMIC microphone and (if needed) the David Gage “lifeline” pick up for stage monitoring sound, that’s my best “remedies” to get the sound that I want these days even if you always have to be prepared for compromises as long as you need to put your horne through a speaker….
BMF: Ci parli della tua strumentazione?
IHF: Dunque, l’anno scorso mi hanno rubato il mio Fender Precision-63 Pre CBS ad Hong Kong e non ho mai rimpianto così tanto uno strumento. Era meraviglioso e dinamico tanto che non ho ancora trovato un sostituto. Ora sto suonando un basso ibrido magnifico che a dire il vero ho ricevuto da Bjørnar Andresen ai tempi; un Rickenbacker che lui rese fretless ed io ci ho inserito dei pic-ups Fender. È davvero uno strumento singolare che apprezzo sempre di più! Riguardo al contrabbasso io sono un sostenitore a vita del sound delle corde di budello e mi impegnerò sempre a tenere ogni cosa sotto controllo persino con il mio basso da viaggio Christopher dal collo rimovibile che sto suonando adesso. Per quanto riguarda gli amplificatori: i vintage ampeg o orange sono le uniche due opzioni se sei alla ricerca di un suono neutro, funziona sia con l’elettrico che con il contrabbasso, e suona davvero morbido o forte da morire. Ad ogni modo sul contrabbasso preferisco se è possibile suonare totalmente in acustico usando il microfono REMIC e (se necessario) il David Gage lifeline pickup per il monitoraggio del suono sul palco, è la mia migliore soluzione per ottenere il suono che voglio oggi, anche se bisogna essere sempre disponibili al compromesso fin quando hai bisogno di connettere il tuo altoparlante con uno speaker…
BMF: In your career you have ranged from classic jazz to free improvisation and you have been one of the people who pioneered the union between jazz and electronic music. Do these different approaches and contexts also reflect your identity of listener? We’re also so curious to know your preferences as a listener. Would you like to mention me any album you feel closer to and that you think it is essential for you? According to your style and career it’s easy to assume that you are open minded…
IHF: Holy shit, that’s a hard question cause there are so many and they change all the time, haha! But here below there are some albums / recordings that are coming up on the spot and that have definitely been very important to me (a lot of jazz, i know..):
BMF: Nella tua carriera hai spaziato dal jazz classico all’improvvisazione libera e sei stato uno dei pionieri nell’unione tra jazz e musica elettonica. Questi approcci e contesti differenti riflettono anche la tua identità di ascoltatore? Siamo infatti curiosi di conoscere le tue preferenze di ascolto. Ti piacerebbe citare un album a cui ti senti più legato e che è essenziale per te? Basandoci sul tuo stile e sul tuo percorso è facile desumere che tu abbia una mente piuttosto aperta…
HIF: Cavolo, questa è una domada difficile dal momento che ce ne sono di svariati e cambiano in continuazione! Ma di seguito ci sono alcuni album e incisioni del momento che sono stati davvero importanti per me (c’è molto jazz, lo so…):
Niels Henning Ørsted-Pedersen/ Archie Shepp – Looking At Bird
Bill Evans Trio – Sunday at the Village Vanguard
Curtis Mayfield – Superfly
John Coltrane Quartet – Cresent
John Coltrane – A Love Supreme
Miles Davis Quintet – In Person Friday Night at the Blackhawk
Miles Davis Quintet – Live At The Plugged Nickel
Charles Mingus presents Charles Mingus
Jacqueline Du Pre – Elgar’s Cello Concerto in E Minor, Op 85
Terje Rypdal Trio – Chaser
John Stevens Spontaneous Music Ensemble – Karyobin
Joe Henderson/Charlie Haden/Al Foster – An Evening With Joe henderson
Ornette Coleman – The Shape Of Jazz To Come
Roswell Rudd and Steve Lacy – School Days
Keith Jarret – My Song
Archie Shepp – Magic Of JuJu
Al Green – I’m Still In Love With You
Glenn Gould – The Goldberg Variations (1955 and 1981)
and then some curiosities for sentimental reasons:
AC/DC – Back In Black
Queen – A Day At The Races
Ignaz Schick
Oliver Steidle
Jan Schlegel
BMF: Compact disc are disappearing as support, all the experts in the field are holding this debate. The return of vinyl seems to be a sort of resistance. What’s your opinion about it?
IHF: Yeah, it’s nothing that can be done with this: the digital music is taking over. There is so much to say about this and it’s totally changing how people are listening to music. And the streaming industry is mostly extremely unethical and really ruins the income from record sales for the musicians! It has some positive sides too, and, it’s good to see that vinyls are back more than ever, that’s very uplifting! Let’s just leave it at that for now… lol
BMF: What are your plans for the immediate future and the days to come? Is there any opportunity to see you here in Italy sooner or later?
IHF: I really hope so, I love playing in Italy and hopefully we’ll be at the Novara Jazzfest in June with The Young Mothers. In March I’m on the road with The Thing and we have a lot of gigs on this 2018 tour after my return to my home village Oppdal in Norway where I performed with some folk musicians from there for a release of my recent album “Village Songs” – a production that I made with those incredible musicians based on religious hymns from my village and mixed up with Jazz musicians from Austin, it’s very exciting!
I’ve closed 2017 with a residency in Altbüron/Switzerland together with Ignaz Schick, Oliver Steidle and Jan Schlegel where we have worked on some improvised, electronic / noise music, using my electric bass and pedals. Aside for that there’s much happening and many tours with old and new constellations going on for the whole year.
I’ll try to keep my website up to date so you can follow me there:
BMF: I dischi stanno scomparendo, se ne discute tra addetti ai lavori. Il ritorno al vinile sembra l’unica forma di resistenza. Che cosa ne pensi?
IHF: Sì, non c’è nulla che possiamo fare a tal proposito, la musica digitale sta assumendo il controllo di tutto. Ci sarebbe molto da dire al riguardo e le modalità di ascolto musicale da parte della gente sta radicalmente cambiando. Inoltre l’industria musicale è sempre più eticamente scorretta e intacca davvero gli incassi delle vendite dei musicisti. Ma ci sono anche alcuni lati positivi e va bene vedere che i vinili stiano più che mai facendo ritorno, è davvero confortante! Lasciamo le cose così, per ora!
BMF: Quali sono i tuoi piani nell’immediato e in avvenire? C’è qualche possibilità di vederti in Italia prima o poi?
IHF: Lo spero tanto, mi piace suonare in Italia e se tutto va bene saremo al Novara Jazzfest di Giugno con i The Young Mothers. A Marzo sono in giro con i The Thing e abbiamo un mucchio di concerti per questo tour del 2018 dopo il mio ritorno a Oppdal in Norvegia, il mio paese natale, dove mi sono esibito con alcuni musicisti folk del luogo per il lancio del mio ultimo album “Village Songs” – una produzione che ho realizzato con alcuni musicisti incredibili basata su inni religiosi della mia città e combinati con il jazz di Austin, è davvero appassionante.
Ho terminato il 2017 con un soggiorno ad Altbüron in Svizzera insieme a Ignaz Schick, Oliver Steidle e Jan Schlegel, in cui abbiamo lavorato ad alcune improvvisazioni di noise e musica elettronica, usando il mio basso elettrico ed i pedali. A parte questo c’è molto ancora in vista e diversi tour con nuove e vecchie costellazioni che andranno avanti per tutto quest’anno.
Cercherò di mantenere aggiornato il mio sito web. Potete seguirmi a questo indirizzo:
BY DAY THIS MUSICIAN HELPS VETERANS AS A SOCIAL WORKER
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PHOTOGRAPHED BY JD SWIGER
Thirty years after moving to Austin and playing in various bands while making ends meet at places like Casino El Camino and Waterloo Records, Sean Morales has settled into domestic bliss. By day he helps veterans as a social worker. His evenings are spent writing music on the front porch of the house he shares with his wife and occasional drummer, Erica Barton, 2-year-old son, and brand-new baby daughter. In January, he released his first solo album, Call It In, a mix of stream-of-conscious garage rock and acoustic ballads inspired by the pull of fatherhood.
What are your earliest concert memories?
My mother was a cop in Norfolk, Virginia. When I was 13, she would take me and my buddy to shows. She’d pull up in a cop car, drop us off, and we would go see the Ramones, the Jesus and Mary Chain, the Church. This was like ’88 at the Boathouse. It was right on a dock. I never would see the water though. I’d see all these adults in this beer garden. We couldn’t see over anybody, we were kids. It was a different time. She could leave us there, and we would be all right. And we were all right.
Why did you get into social work?
I love it. I’ve been out of grad school, working with veterans, since January 2012. There are hard days, but it’s great. It’s my form of service. All the males on my mother’s side of the family and my father were in the military. There was no f***ing way I was going to join the military. This is the way I want to serve.
How do you feel about touring?
I want to be a father first and foremost right now. I have what I have, so I’m rich already. I don’t care about waiting in a bar to play at 1 o’clock in the morning, sleeping on somebody’s floor—granted, you meet some cool people sleeping on somebody’s floor—but I don’t care about that. I’m 42 years old. I’d rather have a hotel and my family. That’s my goal.
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Spoken word artist Samantha Riott has emerged over the past few years as a unique and powerful figure on New York’s experimental music scene. Having developed a reputation as an iconoclast in the poetry world, she turned to fierce experimental music as her medium of self-expression. Her deeply personal, biting lyrics delivered with such raw force set her apart on the contemporary scene. Her band Rodenticide released their debut record in September and Riott is working on a number of other solo, duo, and small-group projects that she is recording and touring with over the coming year. I had the opportunity to speak with her extensively in January. There are numerous embedded videos and lyrics published herein.
INTERVIEW WITH SAMANTHA RIOTT AT HER APARTMENT IN RIDGEWOOD, QUEENS, NY, JANUARY 19, 2018
Cisco Bradley:Where did you come from? What were the formative experiences that shaped you as an artist?
Samantha Riott: I’m from Queens, NY. A product of my environment. I regurgitate whatever I deal with. It doesn’t matter what medium. I just do it. Since I was a child I was always on a stage, whether acting in plays for theater, singing in choirs, playing instruments like guitar or piano, dancing classes… I was always in front of an audience in any capacity I could. So that’s where it all started. I also lived in suburbia for a few years. I befriended my neighbor whom I went to high school with and we bonded heavily over obscure art and music and this knowing of being considered this dynamic duo of misanthropic and alluring, strange girls. We’d constantly go to libraries or shop around left and right getting our hands on books and music from Dostoyevsky to Palahniuk, Nina Simone to No Trend, Valerie Solanas to Iceberg Slim and so on. We consumed so many underground, eccentric artists at 14, 15, 16, which at those ages I think the both of us being daughters of immigrant parents, she of Lebanese background and I of Colombian, mirrored how we felt as outsiders. So maybe it’s no surprise that I was attracted to that which was deviated from the norm of what a human, artist or person of whatever stripe is supposed to be and just be.
CB: What got you on the path to being the artist you are today?
SR: The need for creative expression. I don’t care for formal training, as it can be really limiting. Learning the basics and that it’s for me. Where there’s too many rules, I like to make my own.
CB: You make your own and break other rules?
SR: Yes.
CB: Are there artists, writers or musicians who have inspired you?
SR: Yes, too many to mention. I’m most into artists who are really brazen and don’t confine themselves to anything that is mainstream or status quo. My favorite author is Hubert Selby. (Requiem For A Dream.Last Exit To Brooklyn)
He’s inspirational by way of his writing as he wasn’t afraid of his own darkness or the brutality of life by articulating it. I started reading his books and watching the movies based on his books in high school.
And with his particular writing, it’s not… again, the breaking of the rules and making your own, the way he wrote is very strange because it doesn’t have quotations. It barely has punctuation, it doesn’t even say who’s talking. And I think that’s pretty amazing. I’ve never read a book quite like the way he wrote his books. He’s just one of many who have inspired me.
CB: What was your entry into the scene you are now a part of?
SR: I just sauntered into it …
CB: Was Rodenticide your first major band?
SR: Yes. With Rodenticide, I wanted musicians who could handle what I was doing with spoken word. When I befriended Weasel, I was digging his music so I went to more of his shows and one night he introduced me to Chris Pitsiokos who was playing that night with his band called Bob Crusoe with Richard Lenz and Nat Flack. I saw them perform and immediately felt it was kismet and soon after I formed the band. It was their final show. If I hadn’t seen them that night, there would be no Rodenticide.
CB: You began doing spoken word around age 18. How did you get involved with that?
SR: I was looking to find places to go to perform by that age. I didn’t enjoy doing shows at Bowery Poetry Club but did it anyway. Too many people eager to call themselves poets taking themselves too seriously. The smooth, finger snapping kind of prose I despise. I did what I did and people were terrified. I’m up there with a shaved head, screaming and cursing my head off. They’re like ‘NO, SCRAM!’
CB: Were there any other places you performed beyond Bowery Poetry Club?
SR: Nuyorican Poets Cafe.
CB: And you didn’t find that conducive either for what you were trying to do?
SR: No. What I do is not poetry. The people who perform there are hungry for the applause and finger snapping coolness. By 19, I frequently performed at this dive bar in the East Village. I actually met Max Johnson, the bassist, there, and I would tell people “Don’t applaud. I’m not here to entertain you.” I do what I do because I need to get this out. It has nothing to do with praise. If you like it, that’s great. If you don’t, even the better ‘cause then I’m irritating you because you’re irritating me by complaining you don’t like it, as if I care. So it’s a mutual exchange.
That’s how I create … out of this rage.
CB: Can you talk about the rage?
SR: Yeah, what’s up with the rage? As a native, it’s inherent. I don’t know any native New Yorker who isn’t genuinely angry. Find me one and I’ll tell you they are lying! Having your childhood in New York City is rough. By the time people come to New York they’re adults, so they don’t know how to navigate and get freaked and may assimilate. But as a child, seeing someone lose their mind on the street corner with no shoes and stinky, filthy skin was normal day to day. No questions asked. No reasons why…
Rage … I exercise a lot to workout negative feelings. Some friends have said they can’t picture me doing that but can totally picture me punching someone in the face, so it’s either that or go to jail! My anger stems from feelings of helplessness, hopelessness, feeling oppressed from society that I should bow down to ridiculous and outrageous standards that don’t suit me on a base level let alone an individual level. It’s through stubbornness that I instinctually choose not to let the world bring me down with apathy. I did feel suicidal at an early age which was more like a “Fuck you and fuck this, I’m out” but then I became homicidal. I believe this world is hung up on the “Kill or be killed” saga so I had to be so arrogant and stubborn to survive it.
CB: Punk is dead.
SR: Yeah, it should be!
CB: I watched the performance you did of “Calloused Runt” that you did with Leila Bordreuil at the Park Church Co-op.
SR: That was written at 19 and I never performed it until that night at the church. It was only appropriate since I’m confessing my awful history branching off into this backlog of sins. Leila understands me very well being intense and dark herself!
SR: I met her along the scene. She plays the cello so hauntingly beautiful.
CB: Your work seems incredibly honest and very revealing. At the same time, it is really instilled with ….
SR: Rage?
CB: Rage and your narratives are really, really powerful. When did you start writing this kind of stuff?
SR: I had exhausted every creative endeavor except for writing at 16. I had written a lot when I was 11 until 14 but figured writing is for novelists and poets, which I had no interest in being either. I had songs written but nothing more other than misanthropic diaries. At 17, I had this nervous breakdown or more like an awakening. Felt like I broke a dam inside myself and it felt great. Out of all the creative mediums I was doing then, automatic writing just took over.
CB: You were just doing it?
SR: It came from some elemental force. The things that I write… I don’t pull my hair out searching for a lyric or a song or anything. I let the pen take over the paper.
CB: You’re just letting your voice speak right through you.
SR: Yes. When I read back on some material, I’m always amazed at the insight articulated so sharply.
CB: What was that like? Is it liberating or is it alienating? Do you ever look at what you’ve written and feel like you’re revealing too much?
SR: No. I guess it’s the exhibitionist in me that I don’t care about exposing myself. I’m shameless!
CB: Is it an empowering act in and of itself?
SR: Sure, even though I see it as the need to purge. It’s a brutal honesty I am showcasing mostly and feel no shame in that.
CB: Reading through the words and hearing it performed, your writing is very direct. It doesn’t feel rehearsed or anything.
SR: I’m not trying to shock, but if it doesn’t come out, I’ll feel even sicker.
CB: How often do you write?
SR: Whenever that lighting strikes. It doesn’t happen that often but when it does the storm either comes and pours heavy or barely rains on me like a tease. So it’s either a few lines or like 10 minutes worth of material.
CB: You have talked about this process of purging via your writing. If you perform a piece once do you feel compelled to perform it again?
SR: Good question because when I was doing it as a teenager, I wouldn’t feel the need to do it more than twice. I had lots of material to dish out. The wane happened eventually but as I’ve gotten more active again, especially performing older material, it takes on another energy from a different perspective with new audiences.
CB: What do you see as the difference between poetry and spoken word?
SR: I’ve tried to get into poetry and it just doesn’t work for me. It’s too contrived. Spoken word has range and can be anything from storytelling to theatrical.
CB: “Calloused Runt” is an absolutely stunning piece.
SR: It’s autobiographical with a sadistic conclusion. At 19, I was dating this psychopath so I thought okay, he’s probably going to kill me before I can kill him and I’m going to die and or we’re both going to murder each other so I have to write down my life story before that happens. It’s a very… This is the most I’ve talked about my family but it has to do with how my upbringing shaped my perspective on how I create, ’cause they didn’t like my American bizarreness.
CB: So you talked about kind of like the harshness of New York and just being in this kind of unfriendly environment… the rage that you feel like you have. It’s central to your piece “New York, New York.”
SR: When I was 21 after coming back from living in Georgia for some time, I wrote that. I came back to NYC and I hated it even more. I hate it for what it’s become. I hate it for what people think it is.
CB: You feel alienated from that?
SR: Yes. With the alienation from what I thought I belonged to, you know? And that was inspired by The Last Poets song “New York, New York.” The rhythm… “[singing: New York, New York, the big apple.”] My lyric is “New York, New York, the glorious rathole.” ‘Cause that’s what it is. People here are just living on top of each other like rats, it’s filthy, it’s gross. 3-4 grand for a lunchbox apartment split with 4-10 roommates and you still may still live with roaches and rats and for what? 10 million people and counting trying to keep this facade of the ‘authentic’ experience. So it’s not like I’m romanticizing my past in “New York, New York” but people don’t want to realize that it can be a very toxic environment in the same breath as it is exhilarating. Again, Grandmaster Flash and Furious Five, “It’s all about money, ain’t a damn thing funny…”. It’s even more so now than ever, an expensive, white-washed ghetto.
CB: When you put Rodenticide together what was your vision?
SR: Annihilation.
CB: Annihilation of what?
SR: Everything you love about music. Anything you may care about on the things I speak on. ‘Cause to me it doesn’t sound like music. It just sounds like a big fucking threat. Violent and volatile. That was my concept.
CB: How did the band develop and how did you go about writing the pieces for Rodenticide?
SR: The one piece that I did write for Rodenticide is “Human Condition.” I was 24 then, just a small bit was written a few years prior. The other pieces I wrote at 18, 19, 20, 21.It’s all based on the human condition… which is splayed out all over the place and in your face, sinking into your skin, deep within your blood until you kick and shout it out.
CB: Things you’ve seen, things you’ve experienced …
SR: Yes, things that make me tick. The things that get under your skin.
CB: How would you describe the aesthetic of Rodenticide?
SR: I would describe it as a hit and run. Some kind of hedonism in nihilism. People come up to me after shows and told me how much they really needed that… being hit by the aural, verbal, assault.
CB: Let’s talk about your piece “Twilight Zone.” [Note: Lyrics appear at the end of this article below] I’ve heard you perform this live with Luke Stewart on bass. I’ve seen a video of you perform it with Michael Foster on saxophone. I had the impression it referred to BDSM.
SR: It’s about love.
CB: Can you talk about love? You’ve talked about rage. I’d love to hear you talk about love.
SR: My love is a rage! That was written while watching Animal Planet! The Dark Zone creatures that live so far down that humans can barely reach them. I thought it was very seductive the way that they attract and repel in total darkness. Anti-love, romance.
CB: Is anti-love how you experience love?
SR: No. Not necessarily. But I’ve put myself in positions where things can get very intense and it’s all or nothing.
CB: What do you mean about all nothing?
SR: I live in extremes so it’s only natural that my romances go from one extreme to the other. How does it go? “A million deaths ago my lifeline grew thick and silvered with growth.”
CB: When I used the term BDSM I actually wasn’t necessarily separating that from love.
SR: Well, yes, there is dominance and submission in it but that goes for everything in life. I’m going to be recording that with Luke and Michael.
CB: Do you have another record coming out?
SR: I’m going to do a compilation of collaborations with people.
Right now I’m in the process of doing something with Austin Julian from Sediment Club. He’s going to be playing guitar chopped up with my vocals of an erotic confessional secretly recorded in a church with a priest talking to me, with a forthcoming music video too. And I’m doing collaborations with Michael Foster, Dreamcrusher, Rick Eye from Flesh Narc, and Heroes Are Gang Leaders.
CB: You’re performing one of Heroes Are Gang Leaders’ pieces?
SR: No. One of my own. It’s actually a poem that I wrote.
CB: A poem?
SR: Well, it’s an anti-poem. It’s a humorous mockery of poetry called “Sing a Long”. You’ll hear it soon. I’m working on a book of anti-poetry based on the ‘7 Deadly Sins’ with a friend called the ‘Sins of Saturn’. And also working on graphic novel-esque book with a graphic artist called ‘Mouth of Hell’.
CB: What appeals to you about Michael Foster as a collaborator?
SR: He’s just a strange guy. Unconventional. He’s amazingly talented & unapologetic in his approach.
CB: And Luke Stewart? When did you start collaborating with him? I saw you perform at the Glove.
SR: We were hanging out in Berlin last fall and had him in mind for some of my new material. As I predicted, we had good chemistry collaborating.
CB: So in Berlin, were you on a European tour?
SR: Just myself in Germany, a solo tour. There was a show in Berlin that I tagged along with Grid, Tim Dahl’s band.
CB: How do you relate to feminism?
SR: I don’t. It’s gotten such a bad rep. Even when I was younger I barely cared for it because it was curated with a lot of censorship of what a woman should be via the rules of another woman. Fuck that! A lot of feminism is not sex positive either. It’s just too limiting, too negative.
CB: How do you feel most of the time?
SR: Like a man. Even though I’m dainty… wearing high heels and red lipstick. Yeah. I own both sides of my being, masculine and feminine. Aggressive and sensitive. Vulnerable and guarded. It’s a balancing act, always.
CB: You own both of those sides of yourself?
SR: Yes. I think as an artist you have to.
CB: So your dominance comes through in your approach and your aesthetic. It comes through in the tone of how you write. How do you express your vulnerability? Or do you have more to say about dominance?
SR: Being dominant is a vulnerable thing because people criticize you and put you down and try to make you feel small. You’re putting yourself out there and dodging bullets for being confident and taking control of whatever situation at hand.
CB: And in terms of vulnerability? I guess those are tied together, huh?
SR: Yes, because most dominant people are really sensitive. I am sensitive but you probably wouldn’t think that from looking at me.
CB: What new projects do you have coming up?
SR: I’m starting a new band this year.
CB: Do you already have pieces written for it?
SR: Yes. I’m starting fresh and making new music and taking it from there.One of my friends recently told me of conversation he had with another fan friend of mine that I haven’t reached my peak yet and that they are anxious to see it. That will come in time.
CB: Well, you’re only 26.
SR: Exactly. I got time. Unless I die tomorrow.
CB: Do you want to talk about New York changing? How is it to be a part of a music scene that is largely white?
SR: Everything is largely white. We live in America. The thing about race is I don’t have any cultural pride. We’re all humans. It doesn’t matter what your color. It doesn’t matter what your culture. We’re all in this shit together.
How I create is devoid of my race. If other people want to do that then that’s fine. That’s their prerogative. I’m already the minority in this genre of being an Avant-garde artist and then a minority onto my race then a minority as a woman. I cringe when people say, a ‘Black guitarist’ or ‘Asian cellist’ because no one ever says ‘White saxophonist’…
CB: So and so white composer. No one ever says that. So you’ve been cutting across boundaries of all kinds in terms of aesthetics, artist vision, and the people you include in your bands.
SR: Yes. I have no boundaries. When I formed Rodenticide it was only later I realized okay, I have Isaiah who’s Black and these two White boys. But does it even fucking matter their race? I understand the need to broaden your horizon and find out who else is in the scene besides White people, but personally I blind myself to it because I don’t look at your race and think okay, I’ll work with you ’cause you’re that race or that gender. Just ain’t the case. You can be whatever race and still not be talented.
CB: You called the piece you did with Isaiah Richardson Jr. at the Park Church Co-op as “a short piece about sex and violence.”
SR: Yes. Again, a lovely place to perform when I’m doing the most blasphemous thing.That piece speaks it’s own dirty language and point of view. It details my sexuality through a feminine standpoint with another woman in particular. It made both of our heads spin with delight. Scenarios I can only experience with other women, not men.
CB: You can only get there with trust.
SR: Yes. And it has to be a mutual thing.
CB: In your view, is there a big overlap between sex and violence?
SR: Sex is a form of beautiful violence! And some people like to bleed. My solo spoken word album yet to be released is called ‘Bloodletting.’ I do believe bloodletting can bring alleviation. I think people should do it at some point in their lives… bloodletting. In any way, or form, sexual or not. A cleansing of the self from the inside out.
CB: Thank you for sharing all of your insights. It’s been great talking.
For more information, visit: https://rodenticide.bandcamp.com/releases
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